[00:00:03] It's the next level
[00:00:39] podcast network. I am Rob Martin, also from the caffeine crew cast of Podge, joining me
[00:02:47] nightmare before Christmas. Two things Tim Burton had a heavy hand in for both of them, one directed, one produced. We figured the best drink to make for today was a special drink I came up with called the Oogie Boogie. This is a complicated one.
[00:03:00] It's the best way I can put it. Basically just to give you an idea, there is a video up there so you can see how we make this.
[00:03:07] The basis of the drink is pineapple juice and orange juice. That's going to be about a 50-50 mix that's about 3 fourths of your glass.
[00:03:17] You're probably going to want at least a pint glass for this. In addition to that, it's going to be, if you're making this for yourself, one shot of absinthe, one shot of light rum, one shot of spice rum, then a splash of blue carousel,
[00:03:29] then a splash of Contro and then garnish that off with a maraschino cherry. Again, it is essentially a rum punch, but again with that little anise kick into it. It's a delicious rum punch.
[00:03:42] It is very different though. It reminds me of something I've had from a bar in New Orleans and I've been trying to come up with a close representation of it.
[00:03:51] This is pretty damn spot on. I hope you guys enjoy it, but why don't we dive into our first film? Did we mention what the title of the chapter is? Yep, I just did that. You've already had too much to drink.
[00:04:05] I've had an eighth of this rum punch. You're drunk on monster ginger beer. Oh yeah, there's that too. Not a sponsor. Anyway, what do we call in the chapter? The tale of stop motion.
[00:04:16] That's what I thought. Okay, I was going to say slow motion for some reason, but it wasn't. I just love the fact that every time I'm asking a question, it's as Rob's bending down to take a drink of his punch and I keep interrupting it.
[00:04:26] It's fine. We realized we have straws, so this is much better. That's very true. But yeah, the tale of slow motion in which we're going to... No, let's say a tale of stop motion. What did I say? Slow motion.
[00:04:36] Damn it. Maybe I have had too much rum punch already. Thank you so much for having us here today guys. You're welcome. The tale of stop motion.
[00:04:46] As you mentioned, we're going to be covering two movies, that being the first, the 1993 Nightmare Before Christmas directed by Tim Burton as... Nope. Nope. What? Not directed by Tim Burton. Not directed. Produced by. Produced by. Believe it or not. Who directed... Henry? Henry Sealeck. Damn.
[00:05:03] His tone and style and characterizations all from the movie. So it's commonly misconstrued. I'm just going to stop talking right now. Probably for the past few minutes. No, we like to have fun on the podcast. It's alright.
[00:05:16] But yeah, so it's written by Tim Burton, Nightmare Before Christmas from 1993 as well as the 2005 Corpse Bride which was directed by Tim Burton. Correct. And written by Tim Burton as well. So those are the two that we're going to be talking about this episode in this chapter.
[00:05:33] Why don't we go back and start with Nightmare Before Christmas because again, we'll just look at your differences. So 1993. So for a lot of us, it definitely sets us back time-wise quite a bit. For me, I was 11 or 12 years old when this came out. So it's...
[00:05:50] I think it was about 14, I think? Yeah. When it came out? So this was definitely one of those things when it came out. For me personally, it was kind of like, hey, this looks like a kids movie and I was not interested at the time.
[00:06:00] But a couple years later by the time I was 15 or 16 years old, I was obsessed with this movie. Well, it's interesting too because a lot of people put it considered a Disney movie in which it is. Touchstone.
[00:06:12] But when it was first released, Disney issued it under Touchstone because they were too afraid that it might be a little too much for Disney kids. Yeah, for the audience.
[00:06:21] So Disney released it under Touchstone instead but then once it got a following and they found that more kids started to watch it and everything, Disney re-released it under the Disney moniker.
[00:06:31] So a lot of the versions that you watch now actually have the Disney logo in the beginning of it, which it never did when it first released. Correct. So how about for the two of you?
[00:06:41] Like I said, as far as going back and watching Nightmare Before Christmas, where does your heart lay on this film? Is something you still enjoy? Something you don't enjoy anymore? Yeah, what do you think of this slow motion movie? Yeah. It's an excellent slow motion movie.
[00:06:55] Slow motion movie. Back in 1993 when this came out, I was many months old because I was born in 1993. So it wasn't until middle school, high school that it kind of became really a big thing and I was one of those emo kids.
[00:07:12] So of course, anything Tim Burton really at that point just kind of like your siren song. So every time I watch it, it always gives me happy good vibes and I sing along with it and make my husband listen to me sing along with it.
[00:07:28] So let's hear what he thinks about that. I always under-derise. Yes, that's exactly the case. No, for me, I was really excited because like for the longest time, Christmas always had all of these movies and celebrations and culture and all that.
[00:07:41] And all had before that was The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown. And it's for a Halloween movie and then the night before Christmas came along and I'm like fantastic. And it has always been a staple since my childhood by viewing time of this year.
[00:07:55] I have a really good question for everybody at this table because it's an important question. Do you guys view this as a Halloween movie or a Christmas movie? You beat me to that question. I may have been leading to that inquiry.
[00:08:07] I consider it to be because of the, I don't know if you would call it, just the way Christmas tends to encroach towards Halloween. This is Halloween's way of firing back. So I considered a Halloween movie by technical terms for the longest time.
[00:08:22] There is, I always argue with friends that it was like, oh, well we should watch it sometime in November. So it's between the two holidays. Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. It's a Thanksgiving movie. Come on. There's turkeys involved somewhere. No, there is a tree.
[00:08:34] There is a tree that has a turkey on it. There is a jet. Exactly. So you can also say it's also an Easter movie. Yes, because they kidnapped the Easter Bunny. Yes, absolutely. So it is a movie for all holidays. It is.
[00:08:44] Well, do you know what's funny too? You know, when you talk about whether or not it's a Christmas movie or a Halloween movie, it wasn't until I got older that I realized the actual meaning behind the title of the movie.
[00:08:54] I always called it the Nightmare Before Christmas just because that's what I always called it. But it wasn't until I started to realize that literally Halloween really is the, with the exception of Thanksgiving, it really is the next big holiday before Christmas.
[00:09:09] So the Nightmare Before Christmas is in essence Halloween. I never really put that together when it came to the title until I got older. That makes sense. And it's not just about talking about shopping and getting presents for everyone on time for Christmas. That's different kind of Nightmare.
[00:09:23] That's another kind of Nightmare together. Yeah, absolutely. No, so going into this though, because there's a big factor that runs into the two movies that we're going to talk about. And that's probably the music.
[00:09:33] So style aside, because the style feels like it matches across the board for both of these films. Everybody here, I'm sure, because we've probably all seen this movie a thousand and one times, what are people's favorite songs from this offhand? Go ahead.
[00:09:49] Are we talking from the movie or are we talking from Nightmare? We visited the album with all of the really awesome. That's a completely different story. I was letting someone else bring that one up first. I'm going to say probably from the movie.
[00:10:00] Because Nightmare Revisited is a whole other conversation and it's been a long time since I've listened to it. Me too, and now since you brought it up, now I want to listen to it. Right? Because it's a great album. It is.
[00:10:10] I guess for me, it would either be Jack's Lament or Sally's song. Okay. Probably. Definitely. Damon. What is this? What is this? I can't. Yeah. We're across the board too because if I have to go into any, it's Oogie Boogie song or Kidnap the Santa Claus. Kidnap, yes.
[00:10:30] That's a beautiful song. Yeah. I got to still say this is Halloween, man. That's songs. This is Halloween. It just does something for me every time I hear it. And that was such a great, strong opening that sucked you into what they were about to present to you.
[00:10:43] But every song in that movie really feels like they all have that earworm quality where they get in your head like it's there permanently and it will never go away. Did Danny Elfman do all of the music or was it just the scores?
[00:10:56] Danny Elfman actually did write all of the music. And he did the vocals for Jack's Lament. Yeah. And then Catherine O'Hara, of course, handling Sally's stuff because she's a phenomenal singer as well. Absolutely, yes. Yeah.
[00:11:09] I mean there's really a ton of talent across the board in this film. Well, I mean not only that but when you look at some of the cast too, a lot of people don't realize that, yes, Danny Elfman did the singing voice for Jack
[00:11:19] but the actual script voice for Jack was Prince Humperdink. Yeah, Chris Surrandon. Yes, from Princess Pride. Yeah, I always say actually from the vampire from Frightening. That's that too, yeah. Oh my God, that is right. Everybody always forgets the original Frightening. The first Frightening.
[00:11:36] In the remake he is a passenger in the car. That's true because he's the only one in the car accident. Yeah, exactly. He gets in the car accident with everybody and is horribly killed. So very underrated great movie though. It really is.
[00:11:50] I mean you look at some of the other vocal casting that's in there too. I mean you have William Hickey, Paul Rubin, Greg Proops is even a voice of one of the characters in the movie as well. Oh my God, I forgot Greg Proops.
[00:12:01] Who does Greg Proops play again? Was he the mayor? No, he wasn't the mayor. I think he does a couple random voices. I think it's a couple side ones, yeah. I don't think he really does anything. Yeah, he's the Harlequin demon, the devil and the sax player.
[00:12:15] That's true. That's right. Bone-gaddy, right? Yeah. But I mean William Hickey, for some reason earlier on in my life I had always had the impression that the evil scientist was Vincent Price. You did a great job. But it's William Hickey who is like the grandfather
[00:12:32] from National Inputs Christmas Vacation. He's such another great character actor. I mean it would have been amazing though if they had Vincent Price in this would have been... Well they were supposed to. They were supposed to, yeah. He was supposed to be Sandy Claus. Yeah. Oh really?
[00:12:48] I didn't know that. Yeah, they like even got him to record a little bit but his health was failing so bad it was unusable. Yeah, yeah. It was a shame, yeah. Like I said it would have been amazing. Vincent Price is Santa Claus, man I am worse.
[00:13:01] That in itself would be, that is a nightmare before Christmas. That is, oh my, I, hmm. Yeah, that would have been fantastic. I guess another big question for you guys too is watching it now, is there anything that you take away from it
[00:13:16] now versus when you watch it, when you were younger that feels dramatically different or something that you latched on to more now versus in the past? I think it's important to know in rewatching it because I just rewatched it recently and I still had
[00:13:28] an absolute blast rewatching this movie. It still holds up to me. The older you get the more you realize the messages that are actually in the movie. Especially when it comes to Jack coming to realizations
[00:13:38] about who he's supposed to be as opposed to who he wants to be. And the same thing with Sally, Sally's the same way. She's struggling to find a, not really a life for herself but maybe a characterization for herself. Like she doesn't have any purpose.
[00:13:55] That's the word of the story. It starts, she's just a creation. She's created to serve. Yeah. Versus being her own thing and that's the whole thing for her is breaking those chains and being able to be a person, especially in their universe and their world. Yeah.
[00:14:09] For me it was acknowledging creative burnout when Jack in this whole situation, he's been doing this for years and everyone loves him for it but it's also like this is all I have. This is all I've ever known and he feels detached from it
[00:14:21] because it's become so repetitive to him. And through the journey of the movie and experiencing other opportunities, he realizes he really is the Pumpkin King. It's not just a job, it's who he is as a person, as a soul
[00:14:33] and that's what I connected with as an adult versus a child. Yeah. And it was a strong change for me, it was very beautiful. Yeah. I guess for me the lesson is no matter how much you love something or love someone, you can't own it.
[00:14:47] It doesn't become yours. Yes. Especially if it is somebody else's, you can't just take it and make it be yours. Which is apropos but it's not something I ever thought I would do as a kid. I was just like cool, the skeleton guys over there doing stuff.
[00:15:05] Oh my God, severed head for Christmas, that's what I wanted last year. No. I got socks instead. It's sandy claws. No, I gotta say, I think everybody's answers are kind of exactly spot on but Damon matched what you were saying.
[00:15:21] That's actually always been my biggest takeaway now as an adult is regardless of how much you love something, you can easily burn out on your enjoyment of something to the point where it becomes old hat very quickly and sometimes.
[00:15:34] You and I are kind of sort of going through that right now. Right, yeah. Like Ben and I are going through that with DC because we've been following it for years and doing a show for over four years now or coming up on the end of four years.
[00:15:46] Yeah. And for us that was, we couldn't enjoy it anymore. It felt like it was a job and then we're excited to no longer talk about it weekly purely because we're looking forward to becoming fans again, not critics. And I think that's really hard because when you watch
[00:16:02] something, it's like having to separate yourself from something that you care about and love and have to view it in a completely different persona really can damage something and that's exactly what it feels like here. It's like it's, Jack's is kind of like, well, if I don't
[00:16:16] do it, I'm letting people down. I have to do this because that's what my lot is in life and it's kind of like being disappointed in the job that you have. And I think everybody has that, even if it's something that you're working doing something you love, it's
[00:16:29] really, really easy to get tired of it and kind of take it for granted a little bit too, realizing that, oh, you could try to go over here and take the same things you did and just infest something else with your love for it.
[00:16:42] But it's never going to be exactly the same thing because it's exactly what you said Liz is trying to own something that you don't own. But yeah, I think that's a really kind of perfect for it and kind of blends everything really nicely together. Yeah.
[00:16:55] I mean, a couple other things too that's, I guess, really important to mention about the movie, too. I mean, there's the big obvious fact that this, the movie itself was nominated for an Academy Award. Best Visual Effects and I think it was the first
[00:17:07] animated film to ever get that nomination. So, I mean, when you think of a stop motion film actually getting that too in the work, the entire movie was shot on an SLR camera. Correct. A Canon SLR camera. Right, I mean, and you look at it and there's
[00:17:21] some beautiful stuff. You can just go on YouTube about the making of this film and watch how they did some of their sets, then carving the trees, all these little pieces and that painstakingly stop motion work that is an art that's really just disappeared
[00:17:35] because all of that can be done via CG now and kind of mirror that look closely. It's not never going to have the exact same feel and that tactileness to it. The texture is just not there visually. Right, but I mean like you, none of us have seen
[00:17:49] anything like that for a long time prior to this film. I mean the last time we really saw a really active usage of it was done very minimally. Like you saw it in things like, you know, Jurassic Park, they used it in a couple small sequences
[00:18:02] because that's the way that they were going with Jurassic Park originally. Like if there's a beautiful documentary about the making of that film and before they looked and said, well, I think we can do this with CG, there's all these test shots of them
[00:18:13] actually working with the raptors as stop motion. Shot by shot by shot and actually doing all of this work and they're like, this looks gorgeous and it was Phil Tippett and the folks at ILM said, well, we've been messing around and we want to show you X.
[00:18:26] And 1993 is when that film came out too. So this was a hard delineation of when things dramatically changed of this was kind of like it felt like this beautiful last breath of practical effects for a good window of time
[00:18:40] and then you see the birth of a new era all in the same year. It's a nightmare kind of saying this is what the beautiful art is and then somebody's saying, well, this is also another form of what this art can be.
[00:18:52] So and then it wasn't until I think probably maybe the last five to 10 years that you saw this hard swing back to practical effects again. But it was, I think this was that last beautiful moment that we saw something really just true for almost a decade.
[00:19:06] There's an episode of Gravity Falls in which they actually have claymation monsters they fight and there's a line that's brought up there by an animator who's one of the characters in the episode saying the difference between claymation and CGI is there's a lack of life
[00:19:19] and there's your really don't, there's that spark and that difference of the practical effects exactly that you talked about and it makes a world of difference. And so it affects how the movie plays out on episode plays out because I think
[00:19:33] the practical effects bring more to the table. So it's beautiful to see and it was great to watch it again and to see that again. I think some of the last instances I remember of anything stop motion is there's one or two episodes,
[00:19:44] there's at least one, I think it's only one, but there's one episode of the TV show Community that is done completely in stop motion, which is Abed's Christmas. That's right, it is. Yeah, it's been a long time since,
[00:19:54] I would love to see something like this come back again because it'll be interesting when we talk about corpse bride because like we're talking a decade removed. We're talking 12 years later. Yeah, and it's very different when you go back and look at corpse bride now versus going back
[00:20:07] and looking at Nightmare. But I mean, we'll get to that in a few minutes. So last big takeaways I think for this film or unless there's any big things we want to talk about. The only other thing I want to mention about the movie
[00:20:18] that I didn't know until looking into it further is this was an eight to ten year process. Yeah, it was a long, long, long way. And it originated as a poem written by Tim Burton which I would love to find and read.
[00:20:29] He wrote back in 1982 and he had been trying for a while to make it into either a short film or 30 minute television series or a television special and then it just never happened. And it wasn't until he made a deal with Disney in 1990
[00:20:45] and then in 91 they started production of The Nightmare Before Christmas. So it took eight to nine years before the movie even got started. Well, it's interesting because it kind of ties together a little bit like if you go back to like Burton's early work though too.
[00:20:58] It was like his Frankenweenie was his like big student film. And that eventually became a full animated film and it was also there was also a live action film of it. Like it was kind of you saw those seeds
[00:21:11] that he planted much younger play out over the course of like the last 20 years of his work. Well, I mean we talked a little bit about Vincent Price and potentially being Santa Claus but there was actually I think back in 1982 there was a short film called Vincent
[00:21:26] that was Tim Burton and it was only like five or six minutes long. It was narrated by Vincent Price. Vincent Price, correct, correct. Which is a wonderful short though too. It's been a long time since I've seen that. Yeah, if people have never seen it
[00:21:38] I highly recommend going to YouTube and look up the short called Vincent. It's wonderful. And it's this little kid that's obsessed with Vincent Price and this all he wants to do when he grows up is to be Vincent Price. Who wouldn't? And it's just this adorable short
[00:21:52] but it's done the exact same way. It looks great. We could do an entire podcast just on Vincent Price because he was such a sane... He was a renaissance man that people just have no idea the other stuff that he was into from cooking to comedy and everything.
[00:22:05] Oh my God, absolutely. We could do a whole pod episode with him. Maybe that's Halloween on Captain Crew next year as a Vincent Price one. Maybe, yeah. I guess why not. So actually you know what, there's a couple of other... Edward Scissorhands.
[00:22:17] Yeah, there's a couple of other things. Next season. I know a lot of people really, really like you said are infatuated this film. Has anybody here disappointed that we never got a sequel to watch what would happen if they ever went through any of those other doors?
[00:22:28] I'm actually not. I like it as a standalone movie. I would have enjoyed the adventures of Jack Skellington and or however it would have played out but I'm also very good. I'm with Ben and I'm very good with it just being a one and done sort of situation.
[00:22:41] I feel the same. I mean, I have the natural curiosity of wanting to open the turkey door or the shamoram door or any of the doors. Jack's lament dot dot dot again. This time with turkey. Why the turkeys? It just makes you wonder what weird Halloween
[00:23:01] contraption he uses as stuffing and I kind of don't want to know at the same time. The nightmare after Easter. Too much chocolate. For Thanksgiving though, I mean, their Black Friday is going to be something special that's for sure. Oh man, I can.
[00:23:17] I mean, some of my favorite moments of the movie are just the little things like when you're like the little things like when the mayor comes out and says there's only 365 days till next Halloween, 364. Like it's just the panic he has in his eyes even though he's got.
[00:23:31] Well, you know, it's interesting though because like they said, it has been revisited in a couple small ways. Kingdom Hearts, especially Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, we do go to Halloween Town and then in the sequel we go to Christmas Town.
[00:23:44] So we actually get to see more of Christmas Town. Lovely. But they actually talk to Burton and such to be like, is this what your Christmas Town would continue to look like? But they did a lot of that. But in addition to that though, Disneyland, not Disney World,
[00:23:57] Disneyland only does this and I'm really I wish World would change some of the rulings on it. But they take the haunted mansion every Halloween year and they re-theme it as a nightmare before Christmas right? They only do it for one month out of
[00:24:11] or one or two months out of every year. And so it's fully re-themed down to everything. If you go online, you can actually watch ride-throughs of actually seeing everything that they do to completely change it and re-themed it into this beautiful, wonderful nightmare before Christmas thing.
[00:24:28] And the reason that they don't do that at Disney World is they view Disney World as a big destination vacation where they said people come from all over the world to go here because it's much larger, it's more larger than life in Disneyland is
[00:24:40] which is a much smaller park. And they said for them to re-theme something that a lot of people maybe want to experience the original and not having the ability to do that during a certain window of time they thought was detracted from the haunted mansion
[00:24:53] attraction. And I do get that, but I think it's a shame like if you want to experience it, if you're on the East Coast you have to travel all the way across the country and it's an eight-hour flight to do it just for a five-minute experience. But it's
[00:25:07] really cool that they still have those imaginaries that still love that stuff so much and want really pay homage to a character that a lot of people really grew to love and then Ben you mentioned it really was a Disney property that wasn't ever really treated
[00:25:23] like a Disney property until like the last 20 years when it kind of taken away from that touchstone angle like the same way that Roger Rabbit was. Roger Rabbit was the same thing as they thought it was because it was so adult that they kept
[00:25:35] it in that touchstone corner of the universe versus being willing to keep it under the normal Disney banner and it was like, I wasn't anybody remember the Black Cauldron. I do, I love that movie. I was going to bring that up as like the suggestion for you.
[00:25:47] Well like I said we're already working on next year so we already got our plans out and we can probably, we'll make a mention of it in our final episode. Well I already mentioned Edward Scissorhands which Oh that was one of the other ones I was
[00:25:59] scrambling in my brain to try to remember. I was thinking that was another one to pair up with Beetlejuice. Oh that was the one I wanted to pair with Beetlejuice next season. So that will definitely happen and I'm going to write that down. Two more Tim Burton movies.
[00:26:09] Yeah, yeah. All I know is at the end of this podcast on my one next time in my car traveling I will be listening to This Is Halloween by Marilyn Manson and Kidnap the Sandy Clois by Corn. Right? It's like so good.
[00:26:23] That album if you have not listened to it Nightmare Revisited is Oh it's amazing. There've been a ton of movies that have re-released albums done by other artists. Greatest Showman did it. Honestly? I don't think any of them have ever been as good as Nightmare Revisited.
[00:26:37] Primus did a cover of Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory as a whole album which was bizarre. As a whole album? Whole album. It is Willy Wonka that the entire soundtrack is redone by Primus. Interesting. It is as insane
[00:26:49] as you think it is and then you have to check out more. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Actually I will recommend too if you really thoroughly love the music to this. Seriously just go online there is just go on YouTube search covers for any Nightmare Before Christmas
[00:27:05] Jonathan Young does some amazing stuff. So does quite a few other big YouTube celebrities and stars you know I think it's a voice play was the other one. I think so yeah. That does the great one that I passed around
[00:27:19] to a lot of friends that they do an acapella amazing piece that's for The Haunted Mansion but they also do a great This Is Halloween as well. That would be amazing. And it's really really stunning but yeah I thoroughly love
[00:27:31] especially this time of the year and especially during this podcast I've been just finding wonderful renditions and I sent you guys a couple of weird things that I found I'm like you guys should check these out just help get you guys in the mood for this episode
[00:27:43] and I've sent you quite a few too. Oh yeah. So my playlist for my Spotify is slowly getting more and more just like being taken over by Halloween but it's been super super fun. So I want to close on this before we give our ranking because
[00:27:57] this movie's got so many wonderful background characters that don't get a lot of play. Maybe you're in a scene or two. Does anybody here have a favorite that they wish they would have gotten a little bit more of or were curious about? I really like The Vampires
[00:28:09] but one of my favorite lines from the entire movie is when they're trying to find Jack at the beginning part like where's he gone? And like they search everywhere and like they're resting against the mayor's card and one of the vampire goes this morning just a brief
[00:28:25] little like Ben said like these little nuances and touches and yeah it's a toss between them and the werewolf. Liz? Well I want to know more about Lockshox and Barrel. Damn you! That was mine too. I knew that was going to be like a hard one
[00:28:41] for someone who's like okay I'm just going to go over here a little bit so I can share it's all good. They're just the only like human children human-esque children in this monster land and I want to know how they got there
[00:28:53] and why they're there and why they're with the outcast like tell me more about this. Why were they ostracized from most of the talent? Right like why does everybody hate them? They're just the vandals. They kind of come off like max from where the monster's gone
[00:29:05] is it? Where the wild things are. Where the wild things are. Thank you! They remind me very much of Max from that. They kind of do have that feeling. Yeah. I want to see a story with Lockshox and Barrel told very similar to the
[00:29:17] Rosencrantz and Guildenstern kind of format or similar to like Lion King one and a half the way it was told it's the story of Lion King but told by Timon and Pumba. Same thing with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Hamlet told by Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
[00:29:31] I thought if they ever did a serialization of the series they did Episodic and they went to the other lands those three characters that maybe Oogie could have been a great baseline for like tying to the show but didn't have to bring Jack into it all the time.
[00:29:41] Well because we do know the three of those characters do go to Easter. They do! They would have been a great side story. They would have been a great side story Episodic arc. They could have said you know what? Trying to understand who's Santa Claus is
[00:29:53] and they're like and it's just them arguing for 30 minutes is like is this person? Let's describe the rabbit. Very similar to like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead was the movie they made off of Hamlet. You can do Lock, Shock and Barrow are dead because they are.
[00:30:05] They live in Nightmare Town. So I mean Halloween Town. Halloween Town. I'm drunk. I'm really not. I'm really not good. For me actually it's a character that never has a line and it only appears in two scenes in the entire film and I've always
[00:30:19] been like I want to know more. I want to know more. So during the song Sandy Claws when Jack is in the Town Hall and is actually explaining everything to everyone. There is a Grim Reaper in Halloween Town that is standing in the back row
[00:30:33] and doesn't say anything but like has this beautiful design really gorgeous design but it's like a traditional like long black cloak sighting everything like that but like you can see its body language occasionally where it's like bending up it's like the lights pick up
[00:30:47] and he's like ooh I'm excited about this and I'm like I want to know more about death in the world of death. That is the detail that Rob would zero in on and pick up and it's no lie like when
[00:30:57] that song starts if you look on the right side of the screen the back row he's standing up behind the pews in the Town Hall. I'm going to I'm going to watch the entire movie purely just for that scene. Yeah go for it.
[00:31:09] I mean I've seen that like when he like they're filing into the Town Hall you do like see him from behind the side over him like he's going to sit down. It's a Ravenclaw Easter egg that is deeply embedded in the movie. The last little tiny piece
[00:31:23] I'm going to bring up too is I always have special memories of this film though too because I did see it when they re-released it with my wife who was one of our earlier dates when they re-released it as a 3D film. Oh that's right I forgot
[00:31:35] that. So it's got a near and dear place in my heart and actually in my house I've got a gorgeous snow globe of a nightmare that my sister got for me and a couple other gorgeous trinkets from that over the years
[00:31:47] but. Well I think it's even been released in 40 a couple times as well which I would be interested to see how they did it yeah. Well why don't we close this discussion out with our ranking of this film obviously for those of you that
[00:31:59] are tuning in for the very first time our ranking is very simple it's either a trick or it's a treat essentially our thumbs up and thumbs down and we will start with Liz. Oh it's absolutely a treat. Yeah. This is
[00:32:11] one of my favorite films of all time so. Fantastic. Definitely a treat it's a childhood staple young adults how ever you want to call it is definitely like one of the movies I watch concurrently every year and enjoy it every time. Ben. Treat. I mean
[00:32:25] again it's one of those movie I just watched it recently it's one of those movies I've seen so many times I didn't have to watch it in order to discuss it for this podcast but I still re-watched it anyway. I actually
[00:32:35] didn't re-watch it but I will probably do so very soon but I know this movie inside and out line by line saying every song from start to finish but it's definitely a treat it is such a special movie and I think nothing's ever going to
[00:32:49] quite top it I think for not only just a musical but something that's purely just showing a love of both Halloween and Christmas I think it does it kind of perfect across the board as we talk about what type of film is it and the answer is indeed
[00:33:05] yes. And real quick too before we move on to the Corpse Bride there actually was a theater the El Capitan Theater in Hollywood, California has been showing the film 40 screenings annually every October since 2010. So they still do it. Why don't we fast forward time up to
[00:33:25] 2005-12 years later for the Corpse Bride Ben why don't you take us into that? Again it's another Tim Burton movie this time with Johnny Depp and Helen Abonnam Carter doing the primary voice acting of the film 2005 Corpse Bride
[00:33:41] I wanted to find a clever way to say this is yet another Johnny Depp and Bonham Carter collab because they've done so many. It is actually. But they've done so many together almost to the point of annoyance maybe the maiden voyage of that
[00:33:57] cinematic relationship. Well because I think at the time Burton and Carter I think were still married. They were definitely married. So this is family friendly podcast so we're not going to get into it. We've talked about that. We briefly touched on it. Just slightly.
[00:34:13] I think it was the Halloween talk. Okay so where does it start with this? What's actually you know what let's get initial thoughts out of the way first and then we can get into some more in-depth conversation. So Liz how about
[00:34:27] Corpse Bride for you? How does this one fall? So this is I guess another one of those like important to me in high school type things. But it often is a little grayed out and washed out by all the other more colorful Tim Burton type films
[00:34:45] that I can think of so I don't immediately reach for it or think about it that often. It's just not like. No I get it. I think we're going to get into that a little bit more. Damon how about you? It was for me I always enjoyed it
[00:35:01] reminds me of one of my favorite novels which I'll get into later in the podcast and I enjoyed to touch base on what a little bit with Liz said. I do enjoy the fact that the Land of the Dead is where all the colors at in the movie.
[00:35:13] Yeah. And it's always been enjoyable to me because it has because of the folktale nature of the movie and the entire approach and I enjoyed how Victoria and Victor just kind of by coincidence get kind of thrown together and how beautiful their interaction is. So.
[00:35:31] It's one of those movies I talked to you a little bit about this before we started recording it's a movie I know I've seen a couple times but it's been so long since I've seen the movie that I honestly didn't remember
[00:35:43] a thing about it when I was rewatching it and I don't know if that speaks well for the movie. I mean there's been movies it's been over a decade since I've seen them that I still remember fondly but this is one
[00:35:53] of those ones that in watching it like I said I didn't remember the only thing I remembered about it was that it's a character that marries a corpse I didn't remember any of the characters names I didn't remember anything anything else about it so
[00:36:05] that was something to kind of take away from rewatching it but not to say I didn't enjoy it I just I feel kind of similar the way you do is it kind of gets washed out a little bit by other movies. I think for me
[00:36:17] what's really interesting is you're talking about 12 years later and at this point in time Nightmare Before Christmas is starting to become a cult cult classic like about a decade after and a very big bad way like especially we're talking about
[00:36:29] a time where like Malz were still at a really high peak hot topic and stuff like that was probably also one of those other things as at a peak I mean it still has a really important place I think for a lot of teenage alternative folks out there
[00:36:43] because there's not a lot of places to get a lot of that kind of stuff but that was when I started recognizing and seeing a lot more of Nightmare Before Christmas memorabilia like that was coming out in full force you were able to latch on to this
[00:36:57] and this felt like kind of a cash grab in my opinion like it has the look it's trying to but it was trying to recapture our magic that I don't think it ever really earned like I think it has a really great story that's poorly executed
[00:37:11] and I think that's ultimately what happened with Corpse Bride I do think there's a really great set of bones no pun intended to this film because I think the story itself and the score itself is great it's wonderful but how they get from point A to point B
[00:37:27] to point C never felt like it worked and one of the places I'm going to transition into that is unfortunately the music there's some great ideas and I sent you guys and when I mentioned earlier that I sent everybody here
[00:37:41] Ben I can't remember I think I sent it to you as well too but I sent Damon and Liz copies of I found a great cover of Corpse Bride and it's a great song the Skeleton Sings that kind of gives us the backstory and
[00:37:55] that version has got so much style and pizzazz and when you go to the movie it's like this just feels empty and hollow and it feels like there should be something here but there's it's just off the mark a hair and it's just the smallest amount
[00:38:09] and it drives me nuts that it's it's right there but it felt like they just they rushed something a little bit more that love was missing trying to find someone remains of the day when they were trying to get it together
[00:38:23] and they couldn't find anyone to do it just right Tim Burton reached out to Danny Elfman to sing the music and he just like vocally fried him whenever just to do that character voice for the vocals of the song and I kind of
[00:38:35] I feel like it was there I had to agree with you there's some sort of element missing I don't know if there was a production error or there was a change in I think they had like just in conceptually well and with all the amalgamation
[00:38:47] conceptually speaking of the movie it kind of washed down the process I feel compelled to tell you that that character's name is Bone Jangle which is probably one of the best names I've ever heard yeah and again it feels it has
[00:39:05] Danny Elfman all over it though it's beautiful I mean I think one of the other issues when it comes to the movie and it's maybe not resonating as big as Nightmare Before Christmas is when Nightmare Before Christmas came out we were in like a big Tim Burton
[00:39:17] kind of resurgence a little bit we were still in his renaissance we had Pee Wee's Big Adventure we had Batman Returns, Beetlejuice we're all movies that had just come out before that and then we got Nightmare Before Christmas
[00:39:29] which was a little bit of a departure from what he had done before well post 1999 he starts going on this weird down swear Big Fish Big Fish and Sleepy Hollow I think were his last pieces that I think that were truly like felt important all over the place
[00:39:43] because other than that we had Mars Attacks we had Ed Wood and Ed Wood was great too but we're still talking late 90s early early 2000s but once we hit here we were also right off the tail end of Charlie in the Chocolate Factory too
[00:39:57] which might not have been and then it's Alice in Wonderland and all these other things were like what's happening well Alice in Wonderland wasn't for like five years later I know but God was like that kind of like there he is, he's still there, he's still alive
[00:40:13] Tim Burton's back and then like his next film you're like never mind and then Dark Shadows Oh my hmm I wonder if Corpse Story was something that was conceptually kicked around and in process maybe even when Nightmare Before Christmas was like it was big and it got
[00:40:33] shelved and then they tried to pull it back again to try to rekindle some like in a kind of a crash grab situation and it just didn't each well in sitting on the shelf because that's what kind of felt like
[00:40:43] Oh yeah, I mean I think I can remember really clearly when like that first trailer came out for this film and I'm like oh my God yes I am so excited but like I remember sitting in a theater and like none of the music
[00:40:53] stuck with you, none of those pieces there were slices of it that did like really wonderfully like you know oh my God what's the actual Corpse Bride's name, her character Emily's song that she has is really great but then it's intercut with
[00:41:09] the spider and the worm that ruined the cadence of everything that she's singing like they remove the emotion of it, like you're like oh I feel for her, I feel for her jarring vocals to rip you out of that and then okay now we're back in it
[00:41:23] back in it, okay we're gonna pull you out I was like stop just do one thing Strong character, I said characters completely cutting into the female leads like Soliloquy more or less just completely blowing it they feel, in that film they feel like they're very
[00:41:37] afraid to let any of the characters be by themselves and stand by themselves, like you look at like Nightmare like Jack and Sally and all these the important characters all have moments of reflection, none of these characters ever do, they always have people telling them and reassuring them
[00:41:53] and that's it there's never a moment where they really get to just be and that's what's interesting about it, like you can say okay what the message of like Nightmare Before Christmases and then the verses of the Nightmare or the message of
[00:42:07] Corpse Bride and I think that's a good question for you guys what do you think is the take away for Corpse Bride as a message I don't really know if there is one to be honest with you, I mean again I rewatched it
[00:42:17] right before we started this recording the day before and there's nothing I really I take away from it I mean even in the case of the end of the movie where we find out that the villain is the one that actually murdered the Corpse Bride
[00:42:31] and left her for dead, I was like well I feel like you just kind of threw that in there for the sake of being in there, I mean it's there in the beginning I mean it's there in the song, it's bone jangle song, you see his silhouette
[00:42:45] it's exactly his silhouette and everybody has got a very distinct look and design in that film, yeah I think one of the reasons that I also lost punches just John and me is they were literally doing Alice in Wonderland while they were doing Corpse Bride
[00:42:59] at the same time, Johnny Depp would go off and do one piece and then during the day it was not, it was Willy Wonka in the chocolate factory don't confuse the two Mr Magnus in the know how dare you sir, we don't acknowledge the other
[00:43:15] but no, he was literally being Willy Wonka in the morning and they would was Victor at night and so they were I think they were literally doing both ends and it did not get the treatment or interest that it really should have probably not, yeah
[00:43:29] well I mean I don't even think it's though in again purely where my thought says I don't think there's any problems with the way that the characters portrayed I think it's the problem is the music and the script and the way that they were written
[00:43:41] because I think everybody gives it gives the performance that they should have given but unfortunately I think it was what they were handed was not maybe the strongest I remember really enjoying it when I first saw it but this was one of the films I was surprised
[00:43:55] did not hold up as well as I remembered it conceptually gets watered down in the process unfortunately Liz, you mentioned you enjoy this a lot more when you were younger do you feel that this did it lose something to you or Oh absolutely it's kind of like
[00:44:11] everything is misery and then you die and then it's slightly less misery and that's just kind of yeah it's like depression the movie and I'm not really interested in the movie I have an explanation for this it's actually in the bones itself this was originally this was discovered
[00:44:29] there is a I did some research on the movie because I was kind of wondering the same thing and it's a Jewish Russian folktale that's based on actually possibly two of them and that the concept is a man is wandering the woods
[00:44:43] while out with friends and drinking and trying to work on his wedding vows puts his wedding ring on a finger and then things just a branch turns out to be the skeletal hand of a dead bride she comes out of the ground and she goes ha
[00:44:55] we are married and like the the opus of the folktale is that he goes and runs to the rabbi and goes rabbi I'm married a dead woman what am I going to tell my fiance and the end of the folktale is basically that
[00:45:11] the rabbi says this cannot be legit because you're dead it's one of the parts in the movie when the skeleton comes to end the skeletal sage which is Elder Goodnick which is Michael Gao who was everybody remembers very fondly in the Tim Burton films as Alfred from Batman
[00:45:27] Batman through the end of that Batman series with Joel Schumacher with Batman and Robin and it's that's where that line comes from because they're basically like that was beautiful by the way that line comes from when they come to Emily and say listen
[00:45:41] there's a problem here you can't marry him he's still alive and that's where that comes from because in the folktale she falls apart in shame into a pile of bones because they can't be married and that's I think that's the downside of using something it's also
[00:45:59] it was a Jewish fair tale that came from Russia so the bleakness never quite washed out of the conceptual piece that's why it's kind of like depression in the movie and so please continue sir oh no no no absolutely I actually have a good question for you guys
[00:46:13] because you guys both hit on something that was interesting that like you know the normal world is very drab and the world of the dead is very colorful and bright vibrant is it just me or every movie that attempts to do the underworld fails miserably like they always
[00:46:27] make it like hey look it's bright and colorful but they never do anything with it I can tell you one movie that I think actually hits the nail on the head and that's Coco from Pixar right because that is a very bright and colorful
[00:46:39] world the other other compliments that would be the book of life which is very much like Coco yeah I watched both of them but I always feel like they're on the precipice of doing something great and memorable forever but they always just missed the mark on the way
[00:46:53] that they perceive all that stuff like it's too much for laughs less about reflection like Coco does a really good job I think about getting some of the ideas about being forgotten right post death and I think that was really beautifully a beautiful message
[00:47:07] but it feels like no one's ever been able to capture this idea like because they all try to do the same thing it's always this bright colorful perfect world but not but they all go to that same version of it and it's lacking it's lacking a lot more
[00:47:23] heart I think and I think that's what it is like they tell you would they tell you why that you should care versus showing you why you should care and I think that's what it is there's a brief mentality concept that gets put down on a perspective
[00:47:35] level in the movie that it just gets glazed over and I think they were trying to reach for it but the the effort was lost in the subtlety which is the weakness of the movie because the movie's too subtle for its own good in my opinion
[00:47:47] the concept is the dead basically go why are you so worried about the living you spend so much short time of your actual life living when the dead is for eternity and so I think that's what they're kind of going with the movie but it didn't sell well
[00:48:01] because in the changeover because it didn't present that well that side good well enough and so it it fell down and I enjoyed the the nod of what you should be with someone you want to be with forever which is clinging into death itself
[00:48:15] and that's I think was the takeaway that was supposed to be the takeaway of the movie and it just didn't yeah got lost in the mail so so we feel like we've had a lot of negatives to say I would like to turn that
[00:48:27] around to a lot of the positives because I still think there are a fair amount to this film so starting Liz starting with you what would you say is like one of your favorite pieces of this film well I really enjoy the melody that Victor plays
[00:48:41] oh my god that score the piano absolutely gorgeous I would say that's my favorite of the film even though there's no lyrical component to it I enjoy that I like the nod to 12th night with the Victor Victoria and I enjoy the absolutely creepy
[00:48:59] way the woman says we've got a new arrival at the very beginning when they murder the bad guy mm-hmm those are just some great points yeah they're just a few points but there's a pretty good ones I would say the
[00:49:13] for me a lot of the other good points there was a lot of knots it was almost like an amalgamation of Tim Burton's work it was almost like a collage of Tim Burton's work you have you have Christopher Lee playing the Matt I will say that is a
[00:49:25] great at seeing early on when Victor keeps blowing his valve exactly and Christopher Lee getting progressively more and more angry and frustrated frustrated yes and I see it Christopher Lee playing some sort of like magistrate or legal right exactly there's there's the bridge that he's running
[00:49:43] across that kind of nods to say hello hello yeah there they're the the the underworld setting it's very much a nod to Halloween town in a lot of ways but still kind of has the sugar skull sort of approach to the things right more day of the dead
[00:49:59] I enjoyed this is like you're talking about Emily's song in the movie one of things I enjoy is that she's resting on a fainting couch that is made from a coffin yeah and it's just like I want to have that in my life
[00:50:13] this would be a piece of work I can actually send you a link because I do know a place that actually makes couches out of coffins there you go stunning and oh I'm sure they help had oh I'm sure there's kind of grim though isn't it
[00:50:25] no right it's very it's not like there was corpses in though and if they were they were in there for like a short yeah it's kind of Adam's family parlor room sort of furniture yeah you do if you do over the night enough Pinoche
[00:50:37] but yeah but it's got that fun horribly rockabilly ask this exactly hey I'm I'm eclectic I'll put it feels like something you would see on Rob Zombie's episode of Cribs there you go I like the cigar box guitar sort of feel to it
[00:50:51] that it's been transformed out exactly I like repurposed things repurposed yes it and so there was there was a lot of positive I enjoyed that the that they resolve the the love triangle situation which is also in a different Irish Russian Irish my apologies
[00:51:09] Jewish Russian I've been drinking I've been drinking I barely broke the lid just giggling about the idea of an upcycle coffin couch and it's a little horrifying only your husband would think of these things and um no but it the
[00:51:29] and I lost my truth in the how the the the love triangle thing fades out where the the Corpse Bride basically goes listen you're both alive you should live together you should be happy I need to go find my destiny
[00:51:41] and I felt like it that was a little too reluctant in the movie that was yeah it was beautiful but it felt it's kind of like hey you know what it's fine I'm just going to continue being depressed and you're alone
[00:51:55] it's like wow thanks for that I this is such an uplifting film there's there's there's another really subtle nod and uh is it Lapidori the study of butterflies um because at the very beginning of the movie Victor is literally like studying about
[00:52:11] draws in all that he's got one under glass and he sets it free out into the night and at the end of the movie when Emily ascends basically is what happens I think conceptually when she turns to butterflies when she says I'm you
[00:52:25] two belong together I need to have on that's her literally ascending but it's done so too subtly you're like what just happened did she just just turned into butterflies what is it was like is this how she returns exactly like
[00:52:39] to like the land of the dead because she's still dead well that's the thing I mean like it's literally the the argument isn't the situation a lot of the people in the land of the dead are there because they're still holding on to onto the memories of life
[00:52:51] right yeah or they found a new life in the land of the dead and Emily has neither yeah and so she transcends and she finally finds her peace and she moves on but it's a point that's kind of lost in the sadness of oh I guess
[00:53:03] you get to have nothing and but she actually she completes herself she gets answers she found the man who murdered her yeah she just moved on but it gets kind of lost in everything please see previous episode I think it was like number five the tale of
[00:53:15] unfinished business yes so yeah for me I mean I have to we kind of touch based on a little bit both of you both you guys touch base on a little bit with the voice casting I mean Johnny Depp well I do find it bothers him that
[00:53:29] Johnny Depp and Helen of Adam Carter were a part of so many Tim Burton products at the same time constantly if you saw one you saw the other you did mention it's early it's very early on it's one of the first times you ever saw it
[00:53:41] happen I do feel like they do work very well together that's a great pairing they compliment each other incredibly well in everything they did do I mean it's Sweeney Todd and the rest of everything we've seen him in but I mean in addition to that you have
[00:53:53] Emily Watson Tracy Tracy Oman you mentioned Christopher Lee Michael Gal Albert Finney yeah Alan Cummings does a voice of one of the characters Danny Elfman as bone jangles is another one like it's the voice casting is still strong I mean it's not that
[00:54:09] you know not as strong as Nightmare Before Christmas but it's still strong voice casting yeah no definitely I mean I think for me like my big takeaway is like man if I die and I get to actually like oh my god like my pets are still here
[00:54:21] like they go to the rainbow bridge fully cool and then like we actually had interesting conversation like me and my wife when we were sitting down and like actually like watching the movie again I'm like do we think we could tell each of our cats from their skeletal
[00:54:33] structures if we were dead and they came out towards them like I think so I think I can pretty much figure out all of them yeah it was it was a very warped it was a very warped conversation to have but I'm like
[00:54:43] yeah I think so I think so it was a little bit morbid but yeah I would know more from the skeletal behavior than the look as to what cat it was another big positive takeaway for me is I kind of love
[00:54:53] there's a beautiful nod I don't know if anybody ever picked it up but like the town crier who's kind of over the top right is really a big classic play on being Crosby right from the classic Rankin and Bass you know Christmas specials wow it seemed facial structure
[00:55:09] and everything the way that they portray the character from here comes Santa Claus down to yeah actually yeah here comes Santa Claus is essentially exactly what the one is from where he's the post a postman but that's exactly what he looks like but I loved that they
[00:55:23] kind of nodded to the visual design and I think that was kind of really brilliantly done I'm just realizing something that I had no idea apparently general bones apart from the movie was voiced by Deep Roy who was also in he's been in a bunch
[00:55:37] of other Tim Burton films including Charlie and the chocolate factor yeah he was the oompa loompa he's all the oompa loompas yeah oh right yeah well deep where it was that he was also the head of the one of the heads of the circus in big
[00:55:49] fish yeah that was Danny DeVito in him and I think he's also Mr. Sagi bottoms that's what it was and I think it's not a Tim Burton film but isn't he also mm-hmm isn't he also the alien that's with Scotty in Star Trek I mean he's got
[00:56:05] makeup on his face but I think that's him as well maybe I mean I could I mean Deep Roy has been he's been a huge character director yeah absolutely yeah oh he was in Flash Gordon too yeah there we go all right why don't we go
[00:56:19] ahead and give our final rating of this starting with you Liz I don't know I'm gonna go with the trick it's just how much to only be fulfilled you have to have a dude can you really watch in a sad depressing film
[00:56:35] I mean there's some good points but her whole life and death it's about getting married I'm good thanks the raging hyper gamey was a bit too much you're saying just a little just a little too much I think it actually was a treat for me
[00:56:53] it did it did I had to kind of work on a little bit in my brain it's actually one of my favorite Johnny Depp roles that he's in and I think it's because he can't be too he can't be too strange
[00:57:03] he can't be too out there he's really he's kind of a just a genuine sweet man I really enjoyed that and it's I got his and I don't know if it's because he was exhausted doing Willy Wonka
[00:57:13] during the days so by the time he got to be Victor he was just you know himself maybe I don't know I enjoyed it's a very beautiful subtle movie it's just too subtle for its own good but it was still it's still a treat for me so
[00:57:27] I'm actually really surprised that you say this is one of your favorite Johnny Depp roles because he's done so many yeah he's done many of them he's done amazing work I mean I know the movies aren't always great but I mean I still think Captain
[00:57:39] Jack Sparrow is still such a dynamic character that he gets into I mean even if you look at the videos that he when he plays Captain Jack in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disney World like he steps into that role
[00:57:51] that's the kind of surprise people that are riding it I wish they would have ran a Captain Jack Sparrow movie franchise and did the Monkey Island like Rob mentioned where it was supposed to originally oh I'm sorry it's a heated place for me
[00:58:03] if you want this episode to be another hour and a half long I feel that it should have those points should have been separated and done better but that's a different story Rob's right and we're going to veer away from that back to Ben
[00:58:15] I'm still just a little excuse me I'm the attack hero for that one I'm thinking clearly the best Johnny Depp role ever Yoga Hozers and Tusk from the Kevin Smith movies right? I was in King What's Eating Gilbert Grape but like alright let's just slide right past
[00:58:33] where he actually is genuine and kind that was a great movie but for me it's Edward I'm a big fan of finding Neverland I think that's a great movie you know I don't know if I've ever seen him in Neverland or in the movies J.M. Berry
[00:58:51] which I did see it was a long time ago I know there's a lot of subtle facial, not subtle actually at all not subtle at all, non vocal there's a lot of good non vocal reactions happening around the table through a lot of these conversations
[00:59:05] primarily well since we've been in the corpse bride big shock so you're rating final ratings I'm looking at this as in like if somebody were to ask me who had never seen the movie before should I see the corpse bride a trick would be
[00:59:19] no you shouldn't watch it treat would be yes you should see it looking at it in that aspect I'm going to give it a treat it's not something I think is as good as some of the other Tim Burton works that I've seen
[00:59:29] but if somebody were to ask me should I see it yeah watch it, it's a good watch at least once I'm going to go with a trick I'm going to join Liz on this one we're split on this one this is my first trick
[00:59:43] through all of these episodes I gave you just said it was a treat no I'm sorry you're right you gave legend a trick I gave legend a trick what is wrong with you I gave legend a trick but I can also see in this instance
[01:00:05] when they were watching labyrinth and legend back to back in that instance there's going to be a pale comparison I almost gave labyrinth a trick I can see that I think we broke this you hurt me the reasoning for me
[01:00:21] is all in all honestly and I said it earlier throughout this conversation was really the fact that there's a really great backbone to this film but it never actually turns into anything perfect never actually blooms into a flower it's kind of like somebody planted something
[01:00:41] a little too late in the season and it starts to go and then it just dies and you're like I was rooting for you I thought you could pull through and it just doesn't do it every time a song starts even in the beginning if you think about
[01:00:55] we compare Nightmare Before Christmas this is Halloween too everything must go according to plan everything must go according to plan starts the song they have a weird breakaway where it's this conversation that doesn't interlink and then it goes back into it and then it's just
[01:01:13] there's never a hook, there's never this perfect chorus anything like that that drives you to any of the music they feel like they're trying to constantly build to a memorable song and they never succeed with a single piece
[01:01:25] the only piece that they do is one that Liz brought up which is the score it's the piano piece that Victor plays that is carried through most of the film and I wish if they said hey we're going to make a film it's not going to carry like
[01:01:37] and I think if they said hey look we're going to re-attempt this film and it's purely going to be a score and just watching these characters evolve normally I think we'd be talking I'd be giving this a treat versus a trick I think this got forced into trying
[01:01:51] to again be a cash grab off of popularity from Nightmare Before Christmas and it never was allowed to really be its own thing like you're telling about like Damon the tale that this is based off that sounds brilliant and I'm like oh my god I just watched
[01:02:05] but what you're telling me sounds a lot more interesting than the version I of it that I just consumed um so yeah it's a shame but like it's one of those things if you have an interest it's not a horrible movie
[01:02:15] but if it comes down to thumbs up thumbs down I gotta give it the thumbs down like it's one of those things if it's on TV or you have it like on streaming or something like that throw it on the background
[01:02:25] but don't pay too much attention to it I think that's exactly where it falls it's not terrible but it's not memorable so I think we need a Corpse Pride Revisited album it might be the only way I'd actually pay attention to the music
[01:02:39] I'll tell you this the best way I can give you guys a thought process on it is if anything has got really memorable music and if you can punch up on YouTube a movie title and then say cover and if you'll find a thousand
[01:02:53] one covers of songs from it Corpse Pride I found two that should be proof positive that even the streaming community that's and the musicians that are without most of us pay attention to nowadays that are stemming from places like YouTube and such most of them don't even believe
[01:03:07] that there's anything valid here it felt like it was a project that was like a weekend work they were trying to see with friends and it just was everyone was exhausted yeah just doing too many things at once and it just it was not this is
[01:03:19] this is a whole bunch of producers got stoned one night dude we should do like a sequel to nightmare no let's do something new all right cool you know what give me 20 minutes and I can definitely come up with a story basically like you do is collaboration
[01:03:31] effort they're doing Charlie the chocolate factory they're kicking things out they're trying to get it all done hey Tim there's this really awesome photo I was reading about in this Jewish heritage book that was like and called the finger oh dude and they were talking about it
[01:03:45] we can make this at night and they did their best to shoehorn it in and it just didn't bake properly how long did it take to make nightmare before Christmas we were saying seven eight years seven eight years this thing has been had been just
[01:03:57] it's an idea of a labor of love versus right versus I got it hey guys I got an idea a half college try yeah oh yeah it's a whole my beer watch this yes that's that's what this felt like well I think that does it for
[01:04:13] this this chapter so that was the tail of slow motion of slow motion I do I do we not have any recommendations oh no we're gonna get there yeah okay just check in it just check in she's itching to get those recommendations in so as we get ready
[01:04:31] to say goodbye exactly what I was about to bring up is you guys have any thoughts of based off of these films anything that you would recommend people to go check out before in between now and our final episode which is next week for Halloween
[01:04:45] well we already talked about mine black cauldron which is you know one of my I actually really enjoy this film probably because I really enjoy the books it's based on but if we're talking about Disney films that are a little too dark for
[01:04:59] for their time period it's definitely up there sure definitely even Disney films that had a one-time ride accompanying to them yeah the whole thing still exists in Disneyland so hey that's not a bad thing right the value I want to give to people is
[01:05:15] there's an excellent novel that is very similar to corpse fry that kind of goes off of the fair tales talking about it's called the stress of her regard as written by Tom Powers who actually also wrote a different book called on stranger ties in which
[01:05:29] Tim Powers thank you always do that wrong vowel is also based on stranger ties exactly and I highly recommend the stress of her guard the main character is a betrothed he's about to get married he goes out getting drunk with friends there's this beautiful statue in a courtyard
[01:05:45] who has an outstretched hand there's thunder there's lightning there's alcohol and he puts the ring on the hand of the statue and trying to go over the vows like trying to work on his nerves he stumbles back realizes he's forgotten
[01:05:59] the ring goes back to go get it and the hand is closed the statue's hand is closed with the ring around it so we cannot get the ring back only discover he has committed himself to a supernatural being as their spouse and things
[01:06:13] and I do have to warn people thoroughly this is a very graphic novel this is not a children's piece it's very good adult novel one of the ones ever read he actually finds a way to take the sphinx's riddle turn it on its head
[01:06:23] uses a plot device in the book as a hint that's awesome and so I highly so if you enjoy kind of the conceptual effort that was trying to go with the corpse bride but you felt really let down and I guess I'm looking at you Rob don't worry
[01:06:35] and and you felt like you got let down this I highly recommend this book there are three characters of historical value that are in here literary world it's Lord Byron Percy I was Percy Jackson Percy Shelley and and are show up in the novel as characters
[01:06:55] in the book and this historical value so highly recommend it you had me at Percy Jackson yeah and the lightning it all comes together I also for Nightmare Before Christmas even though it's a little non canonical like half way would be I would highly recommend Cranvis
[01:07:15] we were talking about that earlier Byron and it does an excellent I don't know if anyone's anyone here is reddits has it just been me so far I've read it and I've also watched the recent Cranvis film which is how related are those two are they
[01:07:29] no not at all but like I will say ultimately though Cranvis is such an interesting character and I'm so happy that character is getting his due indeed because and I don't even want to say a character really it really depends on based on your personal beliefs on
[01:07:47] what he is to you is mythology yes because he is a deity in this instance and there is the stealing of Christmas if you're up for audible adventure the guy who does Kirby I can remember Kirby's last name the gentleman who does the audible for Cranvis does
[01:08:05] an amazing job for all the characters involved I will have to give that a listen I've never listened to the audible it is deeply impressive and it's also an adult novel yes it's also very adult this is not a children's book at all in the slightest
[01:08:19] I have a recommendation for if you're a fan of like this kind of animation and kind of like these darker tales there was a movie that was released on September 9th 2009 called 9 and it was about a rag doll that awakens in a post-apocalyptic
[01:08:37] world and finds out he's kind of like the key to salvation and there's a bunch of other characters that are all right that are all numbers I mean they're just like number eight number seven it's got an amazing voice cast like Elijah Wood
[01:08:49] Christopher Plummer like there's a ton John C. Riley is one of the cast members always I know I know visually what it is but never watched it I don't know if I've seen it it's very Burton-esque but it's not Burton at all oh yeah I do
[01:09:01] I do recall I mean like I remember when it was a thing yeah but it was one of those movies that came out and just disappeared yeah but I it was one of those movies that when I saw it I felt was very underrated and I actually loved
[01:09:13] it and if you haven't seen it I recommend it cool it's actually one I probably would even throw into the mix for next season if we have room maybe yeah we might I mean like we're already seven episodes we serve to plan
[01:09:27] yeah so and based on how many weekends we have between September and October we only may have eight episodes versus nine true yeah but as for me I would say my probably go to was honestly seriously jump on YouTube and I would really recommend actually watching
[01:09:43] a ride through of the nightmare before Christmas Haunted Mansion because this is really fun and it's kind of something special about seeing a tactile actual version of those characters existing and being as animatronics and watching giant Christmas reads you know attack
[01:09:59] ride vehicles and stuff like that oh that's wonderful and cute and special about it but I love that fact I bring up cute is something trying to kill you but it feels apropos death by cute yes and it's very apropos for something like this
[01:10:13] but yeah I think that's gonna wrap it up for us so a big special thanks to our good friends Sarah and Taylor and the rest of the band from this way to the egress you get to hear their music on this each and every episode as we
[01:10:25] ran through from the start of our journey in September all the way through the end of October please make sure to head over to their website is which is this way to the egress spelled E G R E S S
[01:10:35] and that's dot com you can also make sure on that page head over to the patreon show them some support they did an amazing piece that was for a scary story scary stories to tell in the dark so please make sure to show a little love
[01:10:49] follow along with the journey that they're telling over there and listen to the other tunes because again they're amazing to listen to and really help get you in the Halloween spirit as especially because we're seven days away but without further ado been any
[01:11:03] other last things you want to bring up um go see zombie land 2 double tap double tap because I saw it and I loved it yeah it's not as good it's not as funny as the first one but it's zombie land so I loved it anyway
[01:11:17] and it's still a lot of fun one of the one of the few sequels Woody Harrelson's ever done yeah yeah he has a big deal about that happen um I honestly for me all I can say is we'll get ready to watch Adams family Adams family
[01:11:29] values season finale it's the best way we can end this uh so please definitely join us next week for our final episode of the season thank you so much for joining us on this ride for uh through our favorite holiday hands down so and we'll be back
[01:11:43] next season and we'll be back next season I will give you a little preview next next week yeah of what we've gotten stored for next year and I think we'll probably have our full roster plan probably next year already by then I'm excited but until then we'll
[01:11:57] see you guys around the bend take care bye